Back when I was in high school, I used to be part of some group called “Speech & Debate.”
Basically, there were various different competitions that you could partake in that either had to do with acting or debating.
I remember getting involved in it from taking a class that was required for everyone to graduate.
Well, they had two classes actually.
I forgot what the difference was between them aside from learning after the fact that I had to go to “competition events” with the class I joined.
So that was that.
It was pretty cool though.
I did the “debate” side because I have no acting skills nor do I aspire to act whatsoever.
And I probably wouldn’t be very good at it either if we’re being honest.
I can argue though!
And that turned out to be true as I actually proved to be decent in the state of Iowa and won my way to Nationals in the Debate side of it.
So there was that.
During those days, I remember being involved in something called “Congressional Debate.”
Where, from what I remember, you’d be part of some event debating different ideas with random other students from across the state.
Or, in Nationals, with those from across the country.
At the Nationals event that was held in Alabama, I remember one of the topics discussed had to do with illegal immigration.
One of the memorable parts of the event that is relevant to the article you are reading had to do with some white Latino dude who took a stand against illegal immigration.
Arguing in front of everyone that more should be done against illegal immigration.
Now, while the “debate” was civil, I remember during break for lunch some discussion between the white Latino dude and someone else.
There was some other kid, assumingly Latino, who had an issue with the other dude’s statements.
In short, though what they said to each other seemed civil, the second dude basically accused the first one of “not being Latino enough.”
Or, at least in hindsight, that’s my impression.
Saying to him that his ancestors were likely immigrants and he shouldn’t argue against new immigration from Latin America (legal or illegal).
Otherwise, it’s “self hate.”
Now, does said Mr. White Latino hate other Latinos?
I have no idea.
But that was one of my first incidents where I came across this discourse that seemingly some Latinos have.
In which, if you don’t suppose illegal immigration of Latinos, then you must be a self-hating Latino.
But, if we’re being honest, not every Latino in the US is for illegal immigration!
You have plenty who are against it and believe everyone should follow the process.
On the flip side, you have those who see a solidarity with all Latinos and believe every single one should be allowed into the country legally or illegally.
Despite the ramifications of such (both positive and negative).
Though, as I wrote here, it’s funny when the same happens to them!
In which, in Latin America, you have Latinos who stand against illegal immigration from nearby poorer Latin countries into their respective richer Latin countries.
The Nicaraguans who go into Costa Rica.
The Venezuelans who go into Peru.
The Colombians who go into Chile.
The Guatemalans who go into Mexico.
The Bolivians who go into Argentina.
So on and so on!
Regardless, much of this topic I was reminded of today when coming across a funny meme online that you can see here.
It’s an image that provokes a lot of different arguments on the topic of illegal immigration and also “solidarity” or “tension” between Latinos living in the US.
Let’s discuss the main things that come to mind based on the discussion I have seen online about it.
Covering the main arguments provided online with my own thoughts on their validity.
“Don’t Want Us Crossing the Border? Don’t Change the Border”
First, you have this argument by some against the message of the meme.
In which the sentiment of this argument is basically “you all fucked our country up. Therefore, we are allowed to migrate illegally to your country.”
And that’s a better way to phrase this argument because the same folks will also justify illegal immigration of people from other countries like Haiti, Guatemala, etc.
Not just Mexico that the US stole land from during a war.
Of course, there are the typical arguments against this framing of the issue.
First, as I wrote here, it’s illogical to claim that it was only the US who has had a hand in how Mexico is today.
For example, said people in support of this argument will mention how a lot of the weapons the cartels use are from the US and many of their clients are Americans.
Though, on the flip side, I’d ask “who are the cartels?”
Are they American or Mexican?
On top of that, it could be argued that, given the amount of money involved, they’d always have clients and guns available to buy even if the US didn’t exist.
Finally, their existence doesn’t just rely on drugs but also an inefficient and corrupt police and judicial system…
Or on corrupt Mexican politicians that they can buy out.
And also other industries that they have taken control of outside of drugs in Mexico.
While the role of the US in all of this is necessary to point out, it’s also not accurate in portraying the issue in a way to claim that there are no Mexicans who fuck up their own country also.
Be it the corrupt cops, politicians, cartel members and much more.
Who are all, if you haven’t guessed it yet, Mexican!
Mexicans fucking up Mexico.
What else is new?
Next, you have those who respond to the argument above that “well, if a country wins the territory in a war, then they own it.”
Justifying the US taking a large part of Mexico.
I’d agree with it.
Of course, to be fair, you have people who respond to that by saying “well, then we are taking it back because look at the demographic changes! Hahahaha.”
Or would they say jajajaja?
And that’s a fair argument.
You have politicians in the US who don’t do anything about illegal immigration and even are in favor of it.
Therefore, if the new immigrants are “taking it back,” then, like in a war, can’t the same logic claim it’s their property now?
Though, on the flip side, there’s issues with that logic also.
Not every Latino in the US is Mexican.
And not every Mexican in the US wants to live in Mexico or want those territories to be Mexican.
Might be why they escaped Mexico in the first place!
Finally, you have some people who argue how “there weren’t a lot of Mexicans in these territories anyway. Therefore, it doesn’t matter.”
I’d actually disagree with this argument.
Just because an area is relatively less populated doesn’t mean that it should be up for grabs necessarily.
Plenty of places in the world are relatively less populated and left alone.
But I do see the point they are trying to make in saying that, given the lack of Mexicans and increased American migration to those territories back then, it might as well have belonged to the US.
Though, by that logic, could we argue a return of the territories to Mexico if we tolerate more Mexican immigration to the same states?
To me, that’d be the logical conclusion of their argument.
Either way, I’m not in favor of returning the territory obviously simply because I’m American and biased in that regard.
And also, as I hinted at before, most folks in these states (including the Latinos) wouldn’t want the states to return to Mexico because they know life is overall better in the US than Mexico currently.
Plus, I favor the argument of “if you won the war, you keep the territory.”
Most countries have determined some of their territories that way.
It’s just a natural scenario in human history as we determine the borders that are always everchanging.
Anyway, let’s consider other arguments that were made from this viral meme.
Do the Mexicans Hate Mexicans?
Well, I don’t know if that white Latino dude mentioned way above hated Mexicans or not.
And I wouldn’t argue that being against illegal immigration is proof of hating Mexicans.
Every country has immigration rules and borders.
Even Mexico as you can see here!
Do Mexicans not like Central Americans?
In the same way that some Americans (and Mexicans in the US) hate Mexicans.
But most don’t in any of the questions above.
Most people simply want immigration rules enforced.
So I wouldn’t argue in saying that simply wanting immigration rules makes you hate Mexicans.
However, on this topic, you do have some Mexicans who hate other Mexicans like this guy pointed out here.
In the same way that you have gringos who “expat” (not immigrate?) to Latin America and HATE other gringos.
A topic I wrote about here.
You also have Mexicans of the same behavior.
Or Latinos in general.
When I was in college, I remember meeting a dude whose parents were Guatemalan.
He was born in the US though and, at least from my impressions, didn’t seem to like Guatemala or even Latinos in general.
There was something about him that seemed to crave “not coming across as Latino” if that makes sense?
Where he’d dissociate himself from anything Latino, not have any Latino friends and would just say things that leave an impression that he doesn’t like the land his parents came from.
If I had to take a wild guess, I’d say that he might dislike Guatemalans and Latinos (or at least the culture and countries they come from).
But why are there Latinos like this?
I have no idea.
I can tell you why the gringos hate other gringos down here as you can read here.
But I’m not Latino and have less understanding of why any Latino might dislike other Latinos in the US.
If I had to guess, I’d say maybe some are aspiring to be accepted by the more dominant culture?
Like this Frank Zappa song here.
People trying to be what they are not.
You have gringos who do the same in trying to “go full Latino” in Latin America because they want to be accepted by the dominant group.
Among whatever other motivations that might exist.
Does Moving Away Mean You Hate it?
This is another argument you could seen mentioned in reference to the meme above.
In which the idea is “you must not like your own country if you left it.”
It’s something I’ve heard in reference to gringos also who leave the US or whatever country they are from.
Personally, I don’t like this argument.
Anyone who knows me knows that I am not “anti America.”
In many ways, I’m proud of my country and like many things about it.
Living away from my country, I even feel a greater identity with it.
Probably from the effect of feeling like an outsider and identifying what my roots.
But, as I said, there is smoke behind the fire!
There are gringos and Mexicans who do hate their roots and move away to other countries.
Still, I don’t think it’s accurate to say that anyone who moves away hates their country.
Or even necessarily thinks that the country they are moving to is better than the one they left.
You have plenty of people who move to another country for certain reasons but they don’t necessarily have an affection for the country they are moving to.
Some even hate the new country!
Like the Mexican who hates everything to do with the US but lives there or the gringo who hates all things Mexico but lives there for some odd reason.
And why do some live this life?
Personally, I don’t hate all things Mexico.
There are plenty of great things I like about this country!
But I don’t consider it better than the Us though I do consider my life here better than what I had in the US.
Along those same lines, I guess you can say I’m opportunistic in choosing a life here that benefits me by earning USD but spending in pesos.
In the same way that a Mexican might benefit living in the US by earning USD but sending that back to family in Mexico that spends it in pesos.
Personally, I see the Mexican who does this as the opposite end of the coin of what I do.
In that sense, while I disagree with illegal immigration in theory, I don’t have anything against the dude personally.
I personally don’t give a shit if a Mexican is illegal in the US because I’m so much more focused on so many other things that I can’t give a damn about it.
I got political opinions but almost none of us will have a political influence on the world anyhow.
And my political opinions are, in many ways, separate from my personal emotions.
In which, when it comes to the Mexican illegal immigrant, I just don’t give a damn.
And, as I said, I see the dude as just the opposite side of the coin of me.
We are both doing a similar activity but just in a different way.
As you can see in this screenshot here, someone claims to not like Latin American immigrants coming to the US because they are parasites who won't fix their own country.
That was funny to see also.
I can’t comment on how true that is because I have only met the occasional illegal immigrant in Mexico who got deported from the US.
But, while living in the US, I never met too many folks who I knew were illegal.
Though, similar to gringos moving to Latin America, you got the same argument made also.
Among expats, you have those who look down on others as well.
Wealthier expats who look down on the poorer ones based on career as you can see here.
Still, among all of the Latin Americans I knew in the US, none of them are what I would call parasites.
I can't recall one that I met that I thought was a bad person.
And why won't they fix their own country?
“Why not Fix Your Country, Amigo?”
To be honest, I always thought this argument was stupid.
When people say to the person coming to the US illegally or legally, they think that said immigrant is some Jesus Christ character.
Like motherfucker – he’s just some random ass person.
Last job? Selling cheap ass headphones on the metro of CDMX.
You think he can change shit?
Most people are not capable of individually changing anything.
It’s them individually against the cultural, political and economics elites of any country who run the show.
And, to be fair, while not all of the people working to improve the country will get killed, there are plenty who do get killed for standing up.
Of course, there are moments where the individual had impact.
Like this dude who inspired the Arab Spring as you can see here.
But his act of setting himself on fire didn’t change the Middle East – it was the people who reacted to it in mass that did.
And there’s no guarantee that setting yourself on fire in Mexico is going to change anything.
It statistically is not likely.
And, even if it does inspire mass revolution, that revolution doesn’t mean that the country will be better afterwards.
Most revolutions don't make things work in my opinion.
Syria, Libya, etc.
Still shitholes and, in the case of Libya, currently worse than what it was before.
Though, to be fair, if the US didn’t take in so many immigrants from Mexico and Central America, one could argue that there’d be more poor desperate people in both areas and that might provoke more internal boiling.
When the US takes in more poor immigrants, it does reduce the amount of people who could be causing unrest in the countries they came from.
Still, most of those folks (if not all of them realistically speaking), weren’t going to do shit anyway.
Nor would the shit they would do realistically have a chance at challenging the elites of their respective countries to fix things.
And, on the flip side, I’d ask the gringos who left the US or wherever why they didn’t fix their respective countries?
As you can read in what I wrote here, you have gringos who escape “the West” because of issues they have with leftist politicians, feminism, etc.
Or you have gringos, as I wrote here, who dislike right wing presidents in the US!
Be it Trump or Biden you hate…
If you have an issue with either, fix your country!
Oh, you won’t? you don’t think you can?
On an individual level, most of us aren’t doing shit anyhow.
So, above all else, I find this argument to be a bit dumb in reality.
“Go back to fix your own country.”
One person in a country of 100 to 300 people…
Yeah, fuck off now, OK?
As you can see here, there was the argument that some Latino immigrants are just hypocritical.
They come to the US.
Continue celebrating their customs but hate the US at the same time while living here.
Equally, you have gringos who hate Mexico but live there also.
But, to be fair, I also think this accusation is thrown around too liberally.
Just because an immigrant or expat isn’t kissing the ass of the new country doesn’t mean that they hate it.
And while one should adjust to the new culture and language of the country, we can’t get rid of who we are.
That’s true for the gringo in Mexico or the Mexican in the US.
So I don’t see either person continuing to celebrate their customs as examples of hating their new country.
And you got folks like that!
Who think that speaking Spanish in the US is somehow indicative of not liking the US enough.
That they should go back home!
Or, on a rare few occasions, some Latino not liking a foreigner speaking English down here.
Not as common but it has happened.
And it’s like…
Motherfucker, you can’t change the roots of the other person.
They’ll adjust how they can to the new country but various aspects of their roots will always be with them.
Get used to it.
It doesn’t mean that they hate the new country.
Though, to end this topic, it is true that, as I said before, some folks do actually hate the new country they are in.
We can only hope they find a way out of that black mentality.
I get why they might be in it though – the feeling of being an outsider and even occasionally finding a xenophobic cunt can impact you mentally.
It is what it is.
I Hate Mexico So Much that I Send Money Back
As you can see here, there was a decent argument made on how could Mexicans hate Mexico if they sacrifice so much to send USD back home?
Risk a lot to cross illegally to work some shit job to send money back to your home country…
So do you hate it?
Granted, they’re not sending the money to help Mexico but help their loved family members.
To be fair logically, this action of crossing illegally and sending money back home isn’t proof that they don’t hate Mexico.
It just shows that they love their families a lot.
They Don’t Hate Mexicans Because They Hang with Mexicans?
Next, you have this argument here.
That a lot of the Mexicans coming over illegally must not hate their countrymen because they tend to choose places to live in that have people like them.
That makes sense actually.
In Iowa, a lot of the Mexican descended people you see tend to hang out more often with other people like them.
In my small town, there’s some Mexican restaurant that seemingly only hires Latinos.
Mexican or other nationality, I have no idea.
And, in Mexico and broader Latin America, you have gringos who only hang out with other gringos.
Just because one leaves their respective country doesn’t mean they hate it.
Many of them create a smaller version of their own country in the new country by living in a bubble consisting of only people who are like them from back home.
There’s plenty to discuss here with all of the different arguments made.
Or you can bring up your own ideas.
Drop any of them below in the comment section.
These were the more popular ones I saw in the Twitter comments but it’d be cool to hear what you have to say also.
Follow my Twitter here.
And thanks for reading.